01005751 Case File No. 002/19-09-2007/ECCC/TC E313 effect by the senior CPK leaders that was passed down the military hierarchy, albeit imperfectly. 3.4.5. Conclusion 152. Given the evidence above, it is clear that NUON Chea was instrumental in the decision to liberate and transfer the population from Phnom Penh and other urban centres. KHIEU Samphan told the Co-Investigating Judges that he was not involved in the decision to evacuate Phnom Penh learning of the evacuation from soldiers in Oudong only before departing for Phnom Penh. He stated that he discussed the policy of evacuating Phnom Penh, which he considered to be a grave mistake, after the fact with POL Pot.441 While Philip SHORT considered that KHIEU Samphan was not part of the decision-making apparatus,442 the Chamber does not find KHIEU Samphan’s statements that he was entirely ignorant of the plans to evacuate Phnom Penh to be credible. Given his close relationship with NUON Chea, POL Pot and IENG Sary, and the evidence summarised above,443 the Chamber is satisfied that NUON Chea, as well as KHIEU Samphan and IENG Sary, participated in the decision to evacuate Phnom Penh and other urban centres. 441 KHIEU Samphan Interview Record, E3/27, 13 December 2007, pp. 6-8, ERN (En) 00156747, 00156749; KHIEU Samphan Interview by HENG Reaksmei, 15 October 2007, E3/586, pp.1-2; KHIEU Samphan: Second “Open Letter”, E3/592, 29 December 2003, ERN (En) 00002804; I Knew Nothing, (Newsweek International), E3/629, 18 September 2006. 442 T. 6 May 2013 (Philip SHORT), pp. 52-53; See Section 8: Roles and Responsibilities – KHIEU Samphan, paras 385-387. 443 See e.g. Book by KHIEU S.: Cambodia’s Recent History and the Reasons Behind the Decisions I Made, E3/18, July 2004, p. 55 ERN (En) 00103750; (“When I asked, they said the order had been given to evacuate the entire population from the capital. My heart skipped a beat.”); T. 31 October 2013 (KHIEU Samphan), pp. 69 (“I never wanted or decided to evacuate the people, and neither did I plan or decide [to do so].”), 70-71 (“I would like to reiterate that I did not witness the things that could have happened days following the victory, and neither did I have any power to intervene, or sanction, or rectify anything. Some even said that I was a coward. The reality was that I did not have any power and I did not care about it either.”) Case 002/01, Judgement, 7 August 2014 - Public 84